The orginal issue (which I should have included) was communication. After getting things rolling, I was asked to step out of the loop.
Neither side followed up well, then when communication of schedule happened, it was "oh bad timing." But then again, no availablity list had been sent to the scheduler.
It was the 2nd event and the attitude of one of the friends that deeply disappointed me and yes, pissed me off.
Deleted earlier comment, as I have now read all the comments on this post. All I have to say about that is, if the young lady doesn't want to perform she should communicate these wishes rather than allowing people to go out of their way for her. *sigh*
Shitty! Sounds like they're on the express line to bad-reputationville. Turning down gigs is a great way to not have them offered in the future.
I turned down a gig once, but it was an hour away from civilization in a place where I knew no one would come see me. I'd played there before and it didn't seem worth it to me to drive so far to play for an empty room. Gas is expensive.
You may have valid input, the orginal gig was at a Filk con, and the offered gig is a large mainstream con.
The orginal issue (which I should have included) was communication. After getting things rolling, I was asked to step out of the loop.
Neither side followed up well, then when communication of schedule happened, it was "oh bad timing." But then again, no availablity list had been sent to the scheduler.
What deeply disappointed me and yes, pissed me off, was the drama quote.
Supportive audience, free membership (of a con they want to attend) and bit of email over just the next month, blown off with a single line.
See comments lower down for the other viewpoint. Which will probably reveal to you who this is about.
You know, if someone went out of their way to get me a gig, I'd figure it's probably for a good reason. And it's not only your reputation on the line, but the person who got you the gig.
When I turn down gigs I have to think long and hard about it, figure out what it has for and against my reputation, and make the decision from there.
But again, when a friend goes out of their way to help you, it's usually best to find a way to make the schedule work out. People then think of you as a "can-do" person, rather than a "can't" and "won't hire them again" person.
You realize the next iteration will be when you decide not to invest your time and energy, they will complain that you aren't doing anything to help them.
My suggestion is that you back slowly away from them so as not to startle them into noticing your absence.
I can see how you're feeling about it, but it also seems to me you're not paying any attention to the human who said that - who always performs at such events with prodding only. In my opinion, she always comes up with some off the cuff semi-put-off excuse for things when first put on the spot. Matter of fact she only sung the solo at Baycon because her best friend and then the entire room prodded her to do so. If you have not noticed this about her after all these years... well.... I don't know what to say.
The amount of info and other factors that were not included in this post amazes me - and thus of course you are getting sympathy and run the other way posts. One false start or badly mishandled situation by inexperienced teens is not such a huge deal. And it was poorly handled on both sides, btw, and one of the people involved should not have been as inexperienced.
You are a friend, but being as no one has asked you to put out anything for them at this point (and you volunteered the last time) I find this uneven airing of the issue rather disturbing, even though it is your journal and thus your feelings.
PS - I did not get in the middle coordinating last time as it had *appeared* there was communication going on. Both sides later said 'didn't hear from the other'. Do we want to start pulling out email logs or can it just be accepted as a screwup and move on.
And admittedly I do not know how these things usually are run, but I would expect some level of scheduling to be done before the con enough to get things to the printers - if *at that point* we had been contacted by the coordinator who apparently scheduled them w/o having had sufficient contact - if they'd had a few weeks notice, they could have still easily made arrangements. But being as that did not happen - there were schedule conflicts and they were not prepared enough. You're right, they didn't follow up - but they assumed with no contact that it wasn't happening. They're used to being given schedules by the folks who expect them to show up and perform places.
And I think you are being unfair too. What johno is complaining about is not what happened the other time but the attitude of K.D. that it is not worth trying again. Sorry he stated it so poorly and didn't respond to the direction the comments where taking things towards. I'm sorry, we were both irritated extremely with the attitude that that K.D. was giving us Friday night and that is what set John off to make this post (which I would have told him was unwise, but he doesn't consult with me about what he's going to post.) I hope you still want to be our friend. Both girls have beautiful voices and we just want them to show them off.
I am sorry he felt so put out by it. Clearly that is still bothering him, some. *I* appreciate the effort he made.
The conversation in the thread though turned into 'bad people for not appreciating and that they'd use him, etc.' Which of course is what upset me.
I know, the girls do have beautiful voices. I love hearing them sing.
Mine, unlike the other, does not usually do this whole "not want to perform thing" and not so much the "not really a this/that type of singer." But honestly, it is the other's habit to do this sort of thing. I always see her doing the negative thing around performing and then she goes and does it anyway. Every time she is asked to sing she does a reluctant act. I still do not fully understand what that's about, but I have seen it often enough that I do not give it a lot of energy.
I don't think she has to decide to be a 'filker' for life, or even primarily identify as filker right now. Shame she didn't see Moira (opera singer, harpist) perform, maybe she'd have seen that one can do many things. It's also possible her view of the filking experience is different from living with a filker ;) But honestly, it's her issue, and teens are also known for not always acting appreciative.
On a forward note: what I am doing is figuring out if this whole idea is feasible this time. Checked in with various performers, and I have sent off an email, we have to work around schedules and who knows, maybe it can happen, maybe it can't. But this time I am going to work on the coordinating part, so it cannot be dropped. And we'll manage rehearsal time also, assume we get the go ahead. She seemed fine with the idea when I last saw her later on Fri. Go figure *throws up hands and says it's a good thing I wuv em both*
My appologies, but this was not really aimed at K. but at KD's attitude.
I was semi-aware that K loves to sing, but not perform. Except for the occasional solo, I've seen or you've played, all her singing seems to be in small private areas or with choirs. Any solo by K has been at the prodding of KD or others. Your pointing this out, has clarified much for me.
This was a vent point, responding to KD's blowing off of an opportunity.
Yeah, she automatically says "no" to most things. However, inexperienced she is, she is working in a direction of making music & singing a career. You don't get far by automatically turning down gigs, and turning them down in a way that makes folks think you have distain for the venue or the audience.
Yes you and girls are not just friend, but family. Hopefully my speaking my feelings and opinion hasn't changed that.
Actually K. likes to perform with a bit of preparation. She has been performing solos since she was 6. She has had solos at church over the years. She gets disappointed when she doesn't get solos with her choir. But she hasn't grown up in the filk room, and doesn't always make it to cons, and we've only done local ones for many years. This limits what she can sing off the cuff. She knows some of Kathy Mar's songs, has the CDs :) She had no problem getting up and soloing "May It Be" at Baycon when she hadn't practiced it since the other con months ago, but she had it down for the other one, so she was fine.
And yes, KD's response was less than... tactful at best. And as I didn't use initials above which might have confused things, KD usually does the verbal 'no no' reluctant act. K tends to do a quieter 'uhm, not sure' when she's in a new situation (or not sure what song to sing).
They both need to grow into their talents and poise some. *hugs*
PS - I often hang out in the filk rooms and *I* still can't sing along with 3/4 of the songs :S
Okay, Johno and I have already worked this out, but to anyone else who feels involved, I'm putting everything down in clear writing so there won't be any miscommunications.
1. It was not a "There is so much drama, we don't want to be involved in that." at all. I understand that not everything I was saying may have made it to the other end of the table. What I was trying to convey was: 'I want to do this concert. At this moment, *I'm* not really comfortable with our current state of repertoire. Just from friends' experiences, I'm worried about becoming involved in any drama that might occur because of us not really performing filk at a filk con. *I* just want to make sure we have some filk material before we perform.' This was me being concerned about not being received well. I didn't intend for any attitude, just worried about preparations.
It's hard to get new songs down when we live an hour apart.
2. "K" and I are both extremely grateful for Johno's help and faith. Our first opportunity to perform was a failure of communication. We were scheduled for a Sunday, and K had church.
3. This is just to kinda clear my name. Young? Yes, definitely. Inexperienced? No, not particularly. I've played numerous gigs and recitals, which is one of the reasons I'm such a stickler for being prepared and responsible. 'Off the cuff semi-put-off excuse for things' is nothing of the sort. Any reluctance to perform is explained by the next half: "put on the spot". As I said, I'm a stickler for being completely prepared. This means warming up, knowing my material, and knowing the format of the performance. Being asked to sing a solo 'on the spot' I had not sung in a VERY long time, and without any of the previously mentioned things (warmup -cough-), does alarm me a bit. There is no reluctant "act" around performing. When I feel unprepared I am not in my comfort zone and believe me, I am truly reluctant.
As K (and anyone else who talked with me about the topic) knows, I love filk, and I'd love the opportunity to perform at a concert. She tells me she feels the same way. I sincerely respect how honorably hurt feelings were brought to light and hope that none of my future actions will warrant such strong discussion.
I know all of you to be amazingly generous and level-headed friends. Now that this issue is clarified, I hope we can move forward in our quest to listen to some great music. And I'd just like to thank Johno and Chris one more time for talking with me. Thank you so much!
Thank you for helping me understand it better. I really do care about you, and admire your talent and your attitude about doing things well.
Let's just say that in an unstructured filk room or at a bash, the environment is relaxed and most of the people, as you well know, are not professionals. So I would encourage you to relax a bit about preparation worries in those formats, if you can. *hugs*
For a concert, yes you want to be prepared, and I don't think anyone would suggest not. I'm going to do what I can to support you both in getting the practice time you'll need - school will be out; I know you'll have ymp. We can make that work, I'm pretty sure. The lotr material fits the theme, you and Kat will need to talk about other songs.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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another one for the nasty "meh!" face there.
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Neither side followed up well, then when communication of schedule happened, it was "oh bad timing." But then again, no availablity list had been sent to the scheduler.
It was the 2nd event and the attitude of one of the friends that deeply disappointed me and yes, pissed me off.
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*shakes head*
My response to "Lookie, a great gig!" is nearly always, "Cool! What can I do for *you*?"
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I turned down a gig once, but it was an hour away from civilization in a place where I knew no one would come see me. I'd played there before and it didn't seem worth it to me to drive so far to play for an empty room. Gas is expensive.
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The orginal issue (which I should have included) was communication. After getting things rolling, I was asked to step out of the loop.
Neither side followed up well, then when communication of schedule happened, it was "oh bad timing." But then again, no availablity list had been sent to the scheduler.
What deeply disappointed me and yes, pissed me off, was the drama quote.
Supportive audience, free membership (of a con they want to attend) and bit of email over just the next month, blown off with a single line.
See comments lower down for the other viewpoint. Which will probably reveal to you who this is about.
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(with a few obvious exclusions, like smoky clubs, public executions, skydiving situations, etc.)
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When I turn down gigs I have to think long and hard about it, figure out what it has for and against my reputation, and make the decision from there.
But again, when a friend goes out of their way to help you, it's usually best to find a way to make the schedule work out. People then think of you as a "can-do" person, rather than a "can't" and "won't hire them again" person.
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My suggestion is that you back slowly away from them so as not to startle them into noticing your absence.
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I've loved and supported one the folks involved since before she was born. You don't back away from that.
This post was vent, more in reaction to attitude, inexperience & lack of maturity, then any need or want to seperate myself from them.
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I can see how you're feeling about it, but it also seems to me you're not paying any attention to the human who said that - who always performs at such events with prodding only. In my opinion, she always comes up with some off the cuff semi-put-off excuse for things when first put on the spot. Matter of fact she only sung the solo at Baycon because her best friend and then the entire room prodded her to do so. If you have not noticed this about her after all these years... well.... I don't know what to say.
The amount of info and other factors that were not included in this post amazes me - and thus of course you are getting sympathy and run the other way posts. One false start or badly mishandled situation by inexperienced teens is not such a huge deal. And it was poorly handled on both sides, btw, and one of the people involved should not have been as inexperienced.
You are a friend, but being as no one has asked you to put out anything for them at this point (and you volunteered the last time) I find this uneven airing of the issue rather disturbing, even though it is your journal and thus your feelings.
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I applogie for not making it clear in my original post that it wasn't the 1st incident that was the issue. There were errors on all sides.
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I'm sorry, we were both irritated extremely with the attitude that that K.D. was giving us Friday night and that is what set John off to make this post (which I would have told him was unwise, but he doesn't consult with me about what he's going to post.)
I hope you still want to be our friend. Both girls have beautiful voices and we just want them to show them off.
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The conversation in the thread though turned into 'bad people for not appreciating and that they'd use him, etc.' Which of course is what upset me.
I know, the girls do have beautiful voices. I love hearing them sing.
Mine, unlike the other, does not usually do this whole "not want to perform thing" and not so much the "not really a this/that type of singer." But honestly, it is the other's habit to do this sort of thing. I always see her doing the negative thing around performing and then she goes and does it anyway. Every time she is asked to sing she does a reluctant act. I still do not fully understand what that's about, but I have seen it often enough that I do not give it a lot of energy.
I don't think she has to decide to be a 'filker' for life, or even primarily identify as filker right now. Shame she didn't see Moira (opera singer, harpist) perform, maybe she'd have seen that one can do many things. It's also possible her view of the filking experience is different from living with a filker ;) But honestly, it's her issue, and teens are also known for not always acting appreciative.
On a forward note: what I am doing is figuring out if this whole idea is feasible this time. Checked in with various performers, and I have sent off an email, we have to work around schedules and who knows, maybe it can happen, maybe it can't. But this time I am going to work on the coordinating part, so it cannot be dropped. And we'll manage rehearsal time also, assume we get the go ahead. She seemed fine with the idea when I last saw her later on Fri. Go figure *throws up hands and says it's a good thing I wuv em both*
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I was semi-aware that K loves to sing, but not perform. Except for the occasional solo, I've seen or you've played, all her singing seems to be in small private areas or with choirs. Any solo by K has been at the prodding of KD or others. Your pointing this out, has clarified much for me.
This was a vent point, responding to KD's blowing off of an opportunity.
Yeah, she automatically says "no" to most things. However, inexperienced she is, she is working in a direction of making music & singing a career. You don't get far by automatically turning down gigs, and turning them down in a way that makes folks think you have distain for the venue or the audience.
Yes you and girls are not just friend, but family. Hopefully my speaking my feelings and opinion hasn't changed that.
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And yes, KD's response was less than... tactful at best. And as I didn't use initials above which might have confused things, KD usually does the verbal 'no no' reluctant act. K tends to do a quieter 'uhm, not sure' when she's in a new situation (or not sure what song to sing).
They both need to grow into their talents and poise some. *hugs*
PS - I often hang out in the filk rooms and *I* still can't sing along with 3/4 of the songs :S
Still friends, okay? No dramas :D :D
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-raises hand-
1. It was not a "There is so much drama, we don't want to be involved in that." at all. I understand that not everything I was saying may have made it to the other end of the table. What I was trying to convey was: 'I want to do this concert. At this moment, *I'm* not really comfortable with our current state of repertoire. Just from friends' experiences, I'm worried about becoming involved in any drama that might occur because of us not really performing filk at a filk con. *I* just want to make sure we have some filk material before we perform.' This was me being concerned about not being received well. I didn't intend for any attitude, just worried about preparations.
It's hard to get new songs down when we live an hour apart.
2. "K" and I are both extremely grateful for Johno's help and faith. Our first opportunity to perform was a failure of communication. We were scheduled for a Sunday, and K had church.
3. This is just to kinda clear my name. Young? Yes, definitely. Inexperienced? No, not particularly. I've played numerous gigs and recitals, which is one of the reasons I'm such a stickler for being prepared and responsible. 'Off the cuff semi-put-off excuse for things' is nothing of the sort. Any reluctance to perform is explained by the next half: "put on the spot". As I said, I'm a stickler for being completely prepared. This means warming up, knowing my material, and knowing the format of the performance. Being asked to sing a solo 'on the spot' I had not sung in a VERY long time, and without any of the previously mentioned things (warmup -cough-), does alarm me a bit. There is no reluctant "act" around performing. When I feel unprepared I am not in my comfort zone and believe me, I am truly reluctant.
As K (and anyone else who talked with me about the topic) knows, I love filk, and I'd love the opportunity to perform at a concert. She tells me she feels the same way. I sincerely respect how honorably hurt feelings were brought to light and hope that none of my future actions will warrant such strong discussion.
I know all of you to be amazingly generous and level-headed friends. Now that this issue is clarified, I hope we can move forward in our quest to listen to some great music. And I'd just like to thank Johno and Chris one more time for talking with me. Thank you so much!
Re: -raises hand-
Let's just say that in an unstructured filk room or at a bash, the environment is relaxed and most of the people, as you well know, are not professionals. So I would encourage you to relax a bit about preparation worries in those formats, if you can. *hugs*
For a concert, yes you want to be prepared, and I don't think anyone would suggest not. I'm going to do what I can to support you both in getting the practice time you'll need - school will be out; I know you'll have ymp. We can make that work, I'm pretty sure. The lotr material fits the theme, you and Kat will need to talk about other songs.